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== August 15 == [[phabricator:T3492]] has the request to activate the WMIncubator extension and to fix the odd problems with the Incubator: namespace. I also put in a request at Stewards' noticeboard to have the iso639-3: interwiki added to our table. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 20:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC) :Very good, thank you! :) What do you mean with the iso639-3 interwiki? --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|Ooswesthoesbes]] ([[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|talk]]) 08:29, 16 August 2018 (UTC) ::The iso639-3 interwiki is available on WM Incubator and other WMF projects. [[:iso639-3:lad]], for example, takes you directly to the listing at SIL for ''lad'' (Ladino, or Judeo-Spanish). It's really for quick reference for you and me. (And you can actually link any ISO code (-1, -2, -3 or -5) and it will work. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 13:29, 16 August 2018 (UTC) :::Ah, like that. That's very useful indeed! :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|Ooswesthoesbes]] ([[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|talk]]) 13:56, 16 August 2018 (UTC) OK. The namespace issues are fixed, including a follow-up problem that the I: and IT: aliases were pointing to now-deleted namespaces. All of that now works properly.<br />Incubator extension is installed, but phabricator needs us to decide on [[mw:Extension:WikimediaIncubator#Configuration|configuration variables]]. Starting with the items in the section I linked, here are my thoughts and/or questions:<br /> '''<code>$wmincProjects</code>''' and '''<code>$wmincSisterProjects</code>''': * I certainly don't see a reason why we wouldn't, at minimum, have '''wp, wt, wb, wq, wy''' in the first group. Nearly all the projects currently in [[wikiaincubatorplus:]] are Wikipedias and Wiktionaries. There aren't currently wq or wy projects there, but I don't see where there's such a big issue if someone wants to create one. There is one wb—a Simple English one. And while in that specific case I'd really encourage those people to create SE books within English Wikibooks, in principle there's no problem on that, either. * Here are cases that I am less certain about how to proceed: *: (a) '''Wn.''' There's only one, a Simple English Wikinews that doesn't look like it's been touched in years. Do we want to be in the news publishing business if someone wants to create something? The current, official Wn projects are mostly unsuccessful as it is. <u>I'm inclined to say no</u>. If we say yes, though, can we do it without using ''DynamicPageList'' (or ''DynamicPageList3'')? Do you know those extensions? I don't, and I don't especially want to support those extensions unless you do know them. *: (b) '''Wv.''' There's only one, and it contains a single lesson by the creator of this Eezee language as to how to speak it. In that respect, I don't mind hosting very simple "Wikiversities" like that, although things like that could as easily be placed in a WP, WT or WB project, too. I especially don't want to start supporting wv-only extensions of the sort they have on Beta, like ''Quiz'', because I don't know them. And I'm not really even sure how languages of the sort we would host here would ever really be able to support something like a Wikiversity. The lack of them on the current Plus says a lot. On this one, <u>I'd like either to say "no" or to say "yes, but we will not support wv-specific extensions here</u>. *::''Note on (a) and (b) One reason to give the limited "yes" answers above is simply to make the transition smooth, and to make it seem like we're not really micromanaging this: "If you want to create something, create it. Our only limitation is that we're not supporting [such-and-such].'' *: (c) '''Ws.''' There are currently none of these. Given that oldwikisource allows content in otherwise-ineligible extinct and historical languages, I'm not sure who would ever start one of these, except perhaps for someone writing in an artificial language that is in wide enough use to have source material, but ''not'' in wide enough use for WMF to allow. And at that I'm not even sure oldwikisource wouldn't allow them. Thoughts? *: (d) '''All other.''' One of the early items on the [[wikiaincubatorplus:Talk:Main Page|Main Page talk page at Plus]] is about allowing "other" types of projects. At the time, it was recommended that those go to something called "scratchpad" at Wikia. Scratchpad is no longer open, because it is now very easy for people to open a new wiki on Wikia (or, for that matter, on Miraheze). We have one such project currently, a "Korean WikiSport". Aside from the question of whether such a thing would be considered a trademark issue by WMF, do we want such projects, or would we rather have them establish themselves elsewhere? What about the current one (if it's even active)? Just a couple of other notes here: *It's not clear to me that even a lot of the "active" projects listed at Plus are even active. Do we leave truly dormant projects there? *Current license there may be CC BY-SA 2.5, so I'll probably add a note to what you wrote stating that all moved projects will have their licenses updated to that. More configuration questions to follow later. But I ''do'' have a day job. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 14:40, 16 August 2018 (UTC) :@[[User:Revi|Revi]]: Your opinions on this stuff welcome, too! [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 14:47, 16 August 2018 (UTC) ::Thanks! ::# '''Wn''': I think you're going to do DPL or you're doing the listings manually. And I don't think we need to keep that dormant wiki here - maybe just store the XML somewhere safe in case someone is really interested and can start with the old details so they know what it used to be. (Being '''news''' site, old data is probably useless because '''news''' focuses on '''now'''.) ::# I don't know what is ''wikiversity-specific extensions'', but I think they can live without the extensions. And just one page, I don't think it hurts to store them. ::# (Skipped Ws) I don't think WikiSport is trademarked by WMF (I think we'll need to confirm but I'm pretty sure the answer is negative) Things that are currently here - I think I can help them getting a new wiki, but that means they're no longer getting the protection of incubatorwiki's dormancy rules exemption (hehe). ::# I don't see any harm importing everything marked as active - if we don't micromanage, it's just better to be inclusive, I think. ::# For the sake of simplicity, I'd rather upgrade the license but I think we need some sort of transitioning method, I don't think we can blindly mark everything as 3.0. :: — [[User:Revi|<span style="color:green"><tt>revi</tt></span>]] 14:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC) :::Yes, I agree with wp, wt, wb, wq, and wy. :::# @Wn: While I understand your reasoning, I don't see why we shouldn't allow it. It probably is not going to take up a lot of space/monitoring. I used DynamicPageList at Wn/li, so I know how the input works. I'm not familiar with the technical side and whether it's difficult to implement it. :::# @Wv: The same reasoning as Wn. While in general it can fit the other projects, it's probably easier and simpler to understand for other users to keep it here as well. :::# @Ws: Oldwikisource does <u>not</u> include new languages that are not eligible for their own subdomain, so therefore we can allow Wikisource here. :::# @WikiSport: it can remain at Wikia. I don't think there's any need for new projects on this wiki. I'm afraid it's going to become too messy. Any new proposals for projects can try out at their own wikis. :::# @Active: I agree with moving over anything that is marked active, even if they're probably not active anymore. We can still message the original creators prior to moving whether they agree with migrating and license change. :::--[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|Ooswesthoesbes]] ([[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|talk]]) 15:07, 16 August 2018 (UTC) ::::OK. Let me summarize: ::::*We're going to allow any of the seven project types here. (There will be no project types in the <code>$wmincSisterProjects</code> list.) ::::*:With '''Wn''', we're ok with DPL. (I'm not going to turn it on until we need it, but it's available through [[Special:ManageWikiExtensions]]. Do you want DPL or DPL3?) With '''Wv''', we're not going to support extra extensions like ''Quiz''. With '''Ws''', we'll allow, but if anyone tries to create one in a "real, but historical/extinct" language, we'll encourage them to go to [[oldwikisource:]] first. ::::*We're going to <u>offer</u> to import all tests listed as something other than "off" on Incubator Plus's main page (table reproduced at [[Template:Wikiatests]]). There are only two exceptions: Korean Wikisport (out of scope, stays at Wikia) and Simple English Wikinews (obsolete news site). We can decide about the "off" ones later. ::::*:We will need to have some means of contacting content creators and asking them if upgrading license is satisfactory. (Question: is a general notice that "moving" constitutes acceptance of a license update sufficient—at least for communities where there is current activity?) ::::*:We can upload an XML of that Simple English Wikinews to our filespace if content creators agree to a license upgrade. ::::*:Per higher on the page: we're not hosting images, even free ones. Only sysops can upload files, and the only files permitted will be (a) project logos and (b) XML archives of content contributed here (or that Simple English news one, maybe). <small>''I'm still waiting to hear back from WM Trademarks about the logo.''</small> ::::[[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 17:52, 16 August 2018 (UTC) Continuing with configuration variables ... * <code>$wmincProjectSite</code> (the name used as your "default test" if you pick "maintenance" as your test: In place of "Incubator" and short version "inc", probably "Incubator Plus" and "incplus". * <code>$wmincLangCodeLength = 12;</code> Maximum language code length: Why not? * <code>$wmincExistingWikis</code> (database of wikis with existing codes) and <code>$wmincClosedWikis</code> (database of closed wikis): Probably should be blank/null here. * <code>$wgGroupPermissions</code> for the extension right <code>viewuserlang</code> is false for most people, true for sysop. * Info Pages: I'm not sure how these are even going to behave here. Let me skip this configuration bit for the moment. (I'll come back to it.) That's not quite everything, but it's most of what's left. [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 18:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC) *''Courtesy link to licenses and their differences: https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/License_Versions.'' [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 21:30, 16 August 2018 (UTC) @Wn: I think DPL is sufficient. @Ws: I agree that historical languages have a place at Oldwikisource. @Wikia: I think the best way would be to simply content the main contributors on their talk page prior to moving a test and give them one week time to react. @XML: Sure, although I still think there should be a place for them at en.wn, as that wiki itself is not really that active. --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|Ooswesthoesbes]] ([[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|talk]]) 08:17, 17 August 2018 (UTC) OK. I put everything into phabricator. Let's see what happens when this all gets turned on. Meanwhile, have a good weekend, and thanks for your massive work in plowing through the projects on WM Incubator! [[User:StevenJ81|StevenJ81]] ([[User talk:StevenJ81|talk]]) 20:19, 17 August 2018 (UTC) :Very good, thank you! :) @WM: No problem :) --[[User:Ooswesthoesbes|Ooswesthoesbes]] ([[User talk:Ooswesthoesbes|talk]]) 08:23, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
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